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Jeremy Reimer
King of Canada
1st Lord of the Admiralty
Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 7833
Location: 789-M
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 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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The banner signified the successful completion of the ship's deployment
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That's a stretch. How many Navy ships ever put a huge banner celebrating the successful completion of the ship's deployment? The sort of banner large enough for, say, a President to stand directly in front of and still have it highly visible?
I'm guessing one.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan
"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord
"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named
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the twinkster
Gorram Alliance
Captain
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 2169
Location: Varies within Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Jeepers, guys, if my ego gets any bigger my noggin will explode!
Thank you both for saying such nice things about me, though. 
The thing is that I dislike arguing. I like to talk about stuff and learn about other people's opinions and why they hold them, and I'm similarly willing to outline my own opinions and the reasons for them... but if the tone gets combative, I rapidly lose interest. That explains why I don't like O'Reilly and Moore but love Stewart.
While by American standards you could say that I'm so liberal-authoritarian as to be off the scale*, my views and their supporting reasoning tend to be nuanced. I love that word, nuance. For example: I love the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and think that "Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms" is the best sentence in any legal document ever. So I definitely support freedom of speech, and yet I also support laws restricting hateful speech (which we have here in Canada). I believe in strong, centralized governments, yet the only time I've ever written to the Prime Minister was when the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001 came up for review (the ATA expanded the powers of law enforcement agencies and the Attorney General; it is loosely analogous to the USA PATRIOT Act).
Nuance, nuance, nuance. 
*Remember, though that your "scale" is very different from that of the Commonwealth and Europe, and indeed is pretty much unique to America. It's important to keep that in mind when we use terms like "left/liberal" and "right/conservative" in these discussions, because they mean different things to you than to me (and the colloquial definition of "liberal" has changed pretty fundamentally since the days of "classical liberalism" anyway -- classical liberalism was a lot like modern conservatism.  ).
_________________
As time stretches on here at OSY Extreme, everyone will eventually have quotes in their sig from the other members. – Mord
Damn, after this and some of my other relationship salvations, I really have a huuuuge stockpile of date karma. Like stumbling into a professional dominatrix at a bookstore at the science fiction section while reaching for the same book kind of karma. -- Happysin, on Ars |
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gisboth
Petty Officer 2nd class
Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Gisboth, do you have any suggestions where I can copy and paste my arguments from? |
Where was the argument?
It was simple quotes of the nation’s leaders.
It’s bitch when people actually examine the rhetoric, huh?
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| Here, I've copy and pasted the bills from the House of Representatives and Senate for you. Note the sponsors and co-sponsors are all democrats. |
You certainly meant just the House, and not the Senate. (Unless there was also a Senate bill introduced which you didn’t cite due to redundancy.)
If you had said members of the Congressional Black Caucus had engaged in some political theatre, I wouldn’t have had a problem.
But you said “the Democrats here have already tried to institute a draft but failed” - which more than implies the Democratic leadership or, at least, a substantial portion of the members, were involved in a serious effort to re-instate the draft. That, of course, is totally false.
___________________________________________________________
JR – I find the most eerie semblance between the two conflicts to be in their beginnings.
The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was passed after the *second* reported attack on US warships.
We now know, from tapes released from the LBJ archives, McNamara’s book, etc., that, at the time, those at the highest levels of government questioned the validity of that second attack. (After the fact, we know that the reports of a second attack were totally false.)
But, in an effort to “fix the intelligence around the policy,” those doubts were never made public at the time.
The goal was to go to war. Whatever flimsy strands that could be presented as ironclad pillars as Truth to support that goal were fed to the public and to Congress.
_________________
you'd have multiple orgasms in Hong Kong - OscarWilde
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MasterOfTheHat
Commander
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 794
Location: In a galaxy far, far, far, far, really really far away...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Damn, gisboth... you're just grasping for straws here, aren't you?
_________________
For my fellow OSYers - You know you're addicted to programming when:"The people you respect most you have never physically seen or spoken to, but you always bow to their knowledge."
*Quantum physics texts are an excellent source of 100% of the recommended daily alowance of "WTF!?!" - HitScan
support.microsoft's cause for a 0x0000007f STOP error:
"• Your computer has hardware or software problems. "
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Jay
Ex OSYer
Captain
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterOfTheHat wrote: |
3c) How is 3b different than 3a?
We are fighting small guerilla groups in small raids and attacks at random times. We are no longer marching against a large, organized force. When the war started, we went in full blast, walked across the country from south to north, and took out the Iraqi army and captured its leader. We took tanks, Hummers, armored vehicles, tons of troops, big missiles, bombers, fighters, etc and we cleaned house. We aren't doing that anymore. Now we are using small groups of soldiers, with or without heavier firepower, against smaller forces who are using guerilla warfare, traps (roadside bombs), suicide bombers, etc at seemingly random intervals and spread sporadically over the country. |
Yes but how is guerilla warfare not a "major combat operation"? I mean we seem to be discounting the strength of the opposition solely based on the tactic that they choose to use. Like it or not, Guerilla warfare is a highly effective method when it comes to waging war and to discount those who choose to use it as not being a "large, organized force" seems terribly short sighted in my mind.
How did Castro win Cuba? How did Osama Bin Laden keep the Soviets at bay and eventually force them to leave for all those years in Afghanistan? Hint: They weren't playing wargames on a big risk board somewhere using whole divisions of soliders. And given what we've seen in Iraq as well as other places like Cuba I think assuming the opposition isn't "organized" just because they employ this tactic isn't the wisest move to make. They have afterall killed over 2000 American soliders, a large number of Iraqi police/military not to mention the countless civilian lives that have also been lost in the process.
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MasterOfTheHat
Commander
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 794
Location: In a galaxy far, far, far, far, really really far away...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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You're right. 'Organized' was not the best word there. What I meant was a large, central, "fighting on a battlefield" type of military. We were fighting that war before the 2003 speech on the carrier.
And maybe you're right that guerilla warfare is a "major combat operation."
Oh, and don't think that I don't believe this enemy is an organized mass behind the scenes.
But also, we aren't marching through the jungle looking for these guys when they attack. Usually. They're popping up on the roadside and attacking caravans carrying supplies or on patrol or eating lunch! I guess that's still guerilla warfare, but it seems different. But, I don't think that we are in "major combat operations" now, regardless.
_________________
For my fellow OSYers - You know you're addicted to programming when:"The people you respect most you have never physically seen or spoken to, but you always bow to their knowledge."
*Quantum physics texts are an excellent source of 100% of the recommended daily alowance of "WTF!?!" - HitScan
support.microsoft's cause for a 0x0000007f STOP error:
"• Your computer has hardware or software problems. "
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Jay
Ex OSYer
Captain
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterOfTheHat wrote: |
| They're popping up on the roadside and attacking caravans carrying supplies or on patrol or eating lunch! I guess that's still guerilla warfare, but it seems different. But, I don't think that we are in "major combat operations" now, regardless. |
I agree that its different. I think this is because the insurgents lack the scruples to spare the civlians from the effects of their attacks mainly because they seem to enjoy making everybody suffer.
Then again I suppose it could be their way of telling the civlians that, "You are either with us or against us" and sitting idling by while the infidels (i.e. the US) occupy your homeland must mean you are against us. Either way their complete disdain for the lives of everybody they encounter is what disturbs me the most. It is also the single thing that makes them so dangerous in my opinion.
It is also single largest reason to believe that the violence that is happening there now won't just magically go away if we leave Iraq tommorrow which means the only way to complete this job is to actually stay around and complete it. The only way to do that is kill the majority if not all of the insurgents or demoralize them in such a fashion that they simply lose the will to continue fighting. It is anybody's guess as to whether or not the second one is possible as there doesn't actually appear to any one person who could or even would for that matter iniate a "surrender" of sorts on their part.
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Jeremy Reimer
King of Canada
1st Lord of the Admiralty
Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 7833
Location: 789-M
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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How did Castro win Cuba? How did Osama Bin Laden keep the Soviets at bay and eventually force them to leave for all those years in Afghanistan?
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Don't forget Mao Tse-Tung defeating Chiang Kai-Shek's superior and better organized National Army in 1949.
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Oh, and don't think that I don't believe this enemy is an organized mass behind the scenes.
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Most evidence indicates that it isn't. When US troops went into Afghanistan, they expected to find huge underground bunkers in the caves. We even saw giant drawings of what the bunkers might look like on CNN. They turned out to be entirely illusory--the caves were mostly empty.
In the BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares" they make a compelling argument that leading politicians like Blair and Bush deliberately exaggerate the terrorist threat for political gains. It's not like this is a new thing. Rumsfeld and his cronies were doing exactly the same thing in the 1980's, painting a picture of a Soviet Union bristling with weaponry and with an overwhelming superiority in numbers of missiles and secret, invisible high-tech weaponry.
Of course that all turned out to be a bunch of bullshit when the Soviet Union turned out not to be able to even afford to pay its own officers, and wound up collapsing.
It seems to me that very little actual organization is required to be a terrorist. You don't need huge org charts and commands coming down from on high. You don't need tons of money. You seem to only need a) explosives and b) stupid people, neither of which are terribly expensive or hard to obtain. The 9-11 attackers didn't even need explosives!
The fact is that several orders of magnitude more people will die of obesity-related diseases than from terrorism.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan
"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord
"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named
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DuffMan
Captain
Joined: 25 Feb 2001
Posts: 1883
Location: In mah pants!
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| FondueDaredevil wrote: |
| Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
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No, he didn't say, "Mission Accomplished"! Read the damned links you posted to me! He never said it!
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Um, does it really matter if he didn't SAY it?
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Yes, considering it was hammered to me twice that he said it and in fact he never did.
The banner hanging back there was for the crew of the ship. Bush gave a speech congratulating them on accomplishing their mission ... "The banner signified the successful completion of the ship's deployment," he said, noting the Abraham Lincoln was deployed 290 days, longer than any other nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in history. The Navy had asked the administration to create it for them.
There is no evidence otherwise.
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Thank you for precisely illustrating an example of how there is a massive difference between what the administration obviously WANTS people to believe (Iraq - Mission Accomplished!!!!) and what it can actually reasonably justify (ummmm 290 days at sea! Its banner time).
The gap is big enough to, well, drive a nuclear aircraft carrier through it.
_________________
Roight.
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5381
Location: My name is Elmer J Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| DuffMan wrote: |
| FondueDaredevil wrote: |
| Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
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No, he didn't say, "Mission Accomplished"! Read the damned links you posted to me! He never said it!
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Um, does it really matter if he didn't SAY it?
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Yes, considering it was hammered to me twice that he said it and in fact he never did.
The banner hanging back there was for the crew of the ship. Bush gave a speech congratulating them on accomplishing their mission ... "The banner signified the successful completion of the ship's deployment," he said, noting the Abraham Lincoln was deployed 290 days, longer than any other nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in history. The Navy had asked the administration to create it for them.
There is no evidence otherwise.
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Thank you for precisely illustrating an example of how there is a massive difference between what the administration obviously WANTS people to believe (Iraq - Mission Accomplished!!!!) and what it can actually reasonably justify (ummmm 290 days at sea! Its banner time).
The gap is big enough to, well, drive a nuclear aircraft carrier through it.
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Read the speach he gave on the carrier. He outlined pretty plainly that we had completed just a phase in the transformation of Iraq.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
Supervillains for Linux!
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5381
Location: My name is Elmer J Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| gisboth wrote: |
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| Here, I've copy and pasted the bills from the House of Representatives and Senate for you. Note the sponsors and co-sponsors are all democrats. |
You certainly meant just the House, and not the Senate. (Unless there was also a Senate bill introduced which you didn’t cite due to redundancy.)
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There was a link to the Senate bill in the HR bill, here it is so you don't have to page back to find it.
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If you had said members of the Congressional Black Caucus had engaged in some political theatre, I wouldn’t have had a problem.
But you said “the Democrats here have already tried to institute a draft but failed” - which more than implies the Democratic leadership or, at least, a substantial portion of the members, were involved in a serious effort to re-instate the draft. That, of course, is totally false. |
I've had to do this with Madan and the past and I see that you also have that same cognitive dissonnance ... here we go;
Jay suggested the only way to finish the war and leave was to institute a draft since recruitment goals aren't being met.
I mentioned that the Democrats already tried to do this and failed.
You insulted me.
I provided proof.
You 'moved the goal posts' rather than being an adult and admitting you were wrong.
So I think we've all learned why I stopped arguing with you and in this thread. The end.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
Supervillains for Linux!
Last edited by FondueDaredevil on Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mord
Console Cowboy
Vice Admiral
Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Posts: 8022
Location: Where the rubber meets the road.
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HitScan
More portable than j00
Rear Admiral
Joined: 01 Mar 2001
Posts: 5698
Location: in.us
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Mord wrote: |
![]() |
Something about that picture makes me think he's just swinging by, trying to bite and rip your penis off. It scares the shit out of me.
_________________
My mind's slacking process has real-time priority.
A kernel is only as strong as its weakest Interrupt Service Routine.
"I was going to write my congressman, but I can't find my checkbook." - /. poster
"Wiffleball bats are good, because they can be retrofitted with lead pipes." - Harbinger
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MasterOfTheHat
Commander
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 794
Location: In a galaxy far, far, far, far, really really far away...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Calm down, Thundar! We know that the thought of that just gets all excited and stuff...
/me runs away!
_________________
For my fellow OSYers - You know you're addicted to programming when:"The people you respect most you have never physically seen or spoken to, but you always bow to their knowledge."
*Quantum physics texts are an excellent source of 100% of the recommended daily alowance of "WTF!?!" - HitScan
support.microsoft's cause for a 0x0000007f STOP error:
"• Your computer has hardware or software problems. "
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Riso
Commodore
Joined: 28 Feb 2001
Posts: 3019
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:59 am Post subject: |
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This debate about Guerilla warfare shows fundamental differences between western and eastern style of combat.
The western, or simply, our style is to mass forces and throw them directly at each other to settle matters fast. See any European war.
The eastern, or asian style is the indirect approach. You attack the supply lines, the lonely outposts and avoid direct military confrontation of forces. Attrition is the name of the game. Here Mao was definitly the unrivaled master.
Now we can also see a difference in the use of concentrated forces.
The western style demands to concentrate your forces to make a decisive blow at the enemy. See the German combined arms concept aka Blitzkrieg at it's finest. (Which is the basis today of any western nation)
Now, the eastern style will only use concentrated force if the enemy has divided his own forces so you can use your overwhelming force to beat his smaller. See Sun Tsu. He states as much.
| Quote: |
| Don't forget Mao Tse-Tung defeating Chiang Kai-Shek's superior and better organized National Army in 1949. |
I don't know if you can call it superior and better organized. When the Japanese just sneered in the general direction of it, the Chinese gave way.
_________________
Miss Congeniality
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways Lord Reimer, your sad devotion to that ancient OS have not helped you conjure up the Guru Meditation or given you clarvoyance enough to find 1% marketshare"
- FondueDaredevil
"[...] we view customers as complete morons that will never catch on and [...] we're lying to them all the time."
- Gabe Newell
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AllYorBaseRBelong2Us
Infernal Smam Lord
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 Feb 2001
Posts: 9707
Location: Gaurding the toenail clipper bag that holds you all!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| The eastern, or asian style is the indirect approach. You attack the supply lines, the lonely outposts and avoid direct military confrontation of forces |
This has never been limited to eastern-western warefare tactics. This has always been the tactics used by the side that has lacked the soldiers, equipment, and public safe-harboring. The French Resistance of WWII, American Revolutionaries, Cheyenne Chief Little Wolf, the Confederacy, and the Browncoats all used these tactics and are decidedly 'Western'.
_________________
This and other statistics can be culled from Jeremy Reimer's Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002, a very impressive piece of information gathering. The numbers tell some very interesting stories.
- http://lowendmac.com/musings/03/0131.html
Man, I need to get out more. You know smam is getting to you when you go to a canadian restaurant and start wondering about moose cock. -OscarWilde
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5381
Location: My name is Elmer J Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote: |
This has never been limited to eastern-western warefare tactics. This has always been the tactics used by the side that has lacked the soldiers, equipment, and public safe-harboring. The French Resistance of WWII, American Revolutionaries, Cheyenne Chief Little Wolf, the Confederacy, and the Browncoats all used these tactics and are decidedly 'Western'.
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Fortunately we aren't fighting this war that way.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
Supervillains for Linux!
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Riso
Commodore
Joined: 28 Feb 2001
Posts: 3019
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote: |
This has never been limited to eastern-western warefare tactics. This has always been the tactics used by the side that has lacked the soldiers, equipment, and public safe-harboring. The French Resistance of WWII, American Revolutionaries, Cheyenne Chief Little Wolf, the Confederacy, and the Browncoats all used these tactics and are decidedly 'Western'.
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Correct me, but didn't the American Revolutioneries only really win after the French tought them how to fight the European way? Also, Maoists certainly did not lack manpower. They controlled everything outside the cities, and I dare say the nationalists had the same shitty equipment.
| Quote: |
| Fortunately we aren't fighting this war that way. |
Yet the enemy is and probably always will be. If the US Army cannot adapt it will fail. The irony is that they already knew how to deal with it in Vietnam, but it seems they forgot how to deal with it because "it's only a temporary" thing. Which of course, it isn't. Asymmetric warfare is their weakness, and the enemy capitalizes on it. There's some pretty good articles hidden on http://www.army.mil/prof_writing/index.htm on exactly this problem dating back at least 3 years.
_________________
Miss Congeniality
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways Lord Reimer, your sad devotion to that ancient OS have not helped you conjure up the Guru Meditation or given you clarvoyance enough to find 1% marketshare"
- FondueDaredevil
"[...] we view customers as complete morons that will never catch on and [...] we're lying to them all the time."
- Gabe Newell
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5381
Location: My name is Elmer J Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Riso wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Fortunately we aren't fighting this war that way. |
Yet the enemy is and probably always will be.
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The enemy is lining up into a front?
I think there is a miscommunication here.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
Supervillains for Linux!
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AllYorBaseRBelong2Us
Infernal Smam Lord
Vice Admiral
Joined: 25 Feb 2001
Posts: 9707
Location: Gaurding the toenail clipper bag that holds you all!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Correct me, but didn't the American Revolutioneries only really win after the French tought them how to fight the European way? |
AYB is not a history/tactics expert of the time, but he's under the impression that they started winning when the Redcoats lined up in parade rank and file to be shot while Johny Reb croutched behind a tree.
The English fought like retarded game A.I. to AYB's understanding.
_________________
This and other statistics can be culled from Jeremy Reimer's Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002, a very impressive piece of information gathering. The numbers tell some very interesting stories.
- http://lowendmac.com/musings/03/0131.html
Man, I need to get out more. You know smam is getting to you when you go to a canadian restaurant and start wondering about moose cock. -OscarWilde
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Riso
Commodore
Joined: 28 Feb 2001
Posts: 3019
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote: |
The English fought like retarded game A.I. to AYB's understanding.
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No, see, everyone fought like that in ye olde world.
_________________
Miss Congeniality
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerous ways Lord Reimer, your sad devotion to that ancient OS have not helped you conjure up the Guru Meditation or given you clarvoyance enough to find 1% marketshare"
- FondueDaredevil
"[...] we view customers as complete morons that will never catch on and [...] we're lying to them all the time."
- Gabe Newell
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kingpinmc
Dark Stalker
Lieutenant
Joined: 03 Apr 2004
Posts: 341
Location: Stuck In a Dungeon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Funny:
It's all a conspiracy. The devil wants Saddam back to be his love puppy.
Flame:
Being that my dad was in the Navy and that 290 fucking days at see is a long time and much to be commended for you can kiss my ass unless you have unphotochopped pictures of President Bush hanging the damn sign up there.
I felt left out.
_________________
"Then I saw little Tiffany. I'm thinkin', you know, eight year old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of monsters, this time of night with quantum physics books? She's about to start some shit, Zed.” - J - Men in Black
So.....
Maxi Does Dallas?
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Jeremy Reimer
King of Canada
1st Lord of the Admiralty
Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Posts: 7833
Location: 789-M
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Being that my dad was in the Navy and that 290 fucking days at see is a long time and much to be commended for you can kiss my ass unless you have unphotochopped pictures of President Bush hanging the damn sign up there.
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I'll repeat my earlier question:
How many naval ships put up giant naval banners saying "Mission Accomplished" at exactly the right height and font size to be clearly visible above a person giving a carefully scripted speech?
I'm guessing just the one.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan
"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord
"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney
Rear Admiral
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 5381
Location: My name is Elmer J Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
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Being that my dad was in the Navy and that 290 fucking days at see is a long time and much to be commended for you can kiss my ass unless you have unphotochopped pictures of President Bush hanging the damn sign up there.
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I'll repeat my earlier question:
How many naval ships put up giant naval banners saying "Mission Accomplished" at exactly the right height and font size to be clearly visible above a person giving a carefully scripted speech?
I'm guessing just the one.
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How many Navy ships had been at sea without break for 290 days and had just completed 1000's of war sorties?
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
Supervillains for Linux!
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Jay
Ex OSYer
Captain
Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 1589
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
I'll repeat my earlier question:
How many naval ships put up giant naval banners saying "Mission Accomplished" at exactly the right height and font size to be clearly visible above a person giving a carefully scripted speech?
I'm guessing just the one. |
Anybody who thinks Karl Rove would allow Bush to make such a massive misstep and that the banner wasn't put there on purpose, needs to really rethink the dynamics of how this presidency works. I won't debate that the banner might have meant one thing and we are taking it in a different meaning, however given the way in which that banner was used and displayed it is foolish to believe that there wasn't an impression that the administration was trying to convey.
Donald Rumsfeld is on "Face the Nation" this morning. Dodge. Dodge. Dodge. It's quite amusing. When asked what impact does the fact that 60% of people in the country no longer support the war have, we started his response with, "We have a president who knows this war needs to be fought...'
/me sighs
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