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OscarWilde
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:43 am Post subject: |
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PaoloM wrote: |
And there's apparently a whole lot more coming in Longhorn. For example: Transactional NTFS, new rendering/compositing engine, stacks (or smart folders, or whatever they call it this week), new TCP/IP stack (IPv6 native), the newly announced RSS platform, Project-M, etc etc |
Transactional NTFS? I guess I should google to understand that.
If developers are making a stink over Avalon which is a UI API (right?), why wouldn't the developers make a stink over the rendering/compositing engine not being made available to XP too?
New TCP/IP stack which has IPv6 native.... another google search on it's way.
Newly announced RSS platform... you mean a new way to develop, deliver and get RSS?
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OscarWilde
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Oh, and what is project m?
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PaoloM
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:50 am Post subject: |
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OscarWilde wrote: |
Interesting indeed. Makes sense then. How is XP going to get the new features? Service Pack? |
I don't think it has been decided yet. I believe it will be distributed via Windows Update, as an extension to the .NET framewrok 2.0
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Then how is MS going to market Longhorn over XP SPx? |
Longhorn is a new operating system. Avalon is an API.
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PaoloM
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:53 am Post subject: |
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OscarWilde wrote: |
If developers are making a stink over Avalon which is a UI API (right?), why wouldn't the developers make a stink over the rendering/compositing engine not being made available to XP too? |
Because the new engine requires fundamental changes in the display drivers architecture. Changes that are not gonna be backported to XP.
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Newly announced RSS platform... you mean a new way to develop, deliver and get RSS? |
A set of classes to centralize the subscription and publishing of RSS feeds and events.
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OscarWilde
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Forgive me for my ignorance, but how is Longhorn a new OS if the major touted marketed features are going to be available to XP as well?
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Because the new engine requires fundamental changes in the display drivers architecture. Changes that are not gonna be backported to XP. |
Now this has me all confused. Avalon is an API MS was pimping, which is what developers wanted in XP and are getting. This new graphics engine in Longhorn (whatever it's called, but we'll call it StudlyOSGraphicsEngineWannabe, or SGEW*) will be a whole different beast. So what will be the API that works on top of SGEW? I thought Avalon was the UI that developers used to access the new rendering engine of Longhorn? IOW, what will the SGEW give to developers that Avalon won't give?
*Pronounced as 'sss-guuu'. Makes the girls notice** you when you say that out loud in a public place.
**What kinda notice you get depends on if you're a pimp or an ugly fat bastard.
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'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
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PaoloM
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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OscarWilde wrote: |
Avalon is an API MS was pimping, which is what developers wanted in XP and are getting. This new graphics engine in Longhorn (whatever it's called, but we'll call it StudlyOSGraphicsEngineWannabe, or SGEW*) will be a whole different beast. So what will be the API that works on top of SGEW? I thought Avalon was the UI that developers used to access the new rendering engine of Longhorn? IOW, what will the SGEW give to developers that Avalon won't give? |
Avalon is an API that will work on top of the current display infrastructure in XP, and on top of the new engine in Longhorn.
For example, on XP the boundary of an Avalon application is the window, created and managed with the current system. This means that GDI+ is doing all the work, the display will still be composited on screen and effects that go "out" of the application window will not be allowed.
On Longhorn, on the other hand, Avalon will span the entire desktop and it will be composited off screen and rendered directly from the graphic card.
The Avalon API will stay the same from a developer point of view, but the actual behaviour of the system will be very different.
Did I make any sense?
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OscarWilde
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, actually that does make sense. And you even anticipated a question I was going to ask, till I re-read your post and saw the answer.
Edit: incase you were wondering, I was going to ask if WindowsXP windows limitation would be a limit itself on Avalon. So, IOW, not all Avalon features will be seen on XP.
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OscarWilde
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Just to make things clear to myself: when you say that Avalon will span the entire desktop versus windows-only on xp, does it mean that if I had an app in Longhorn I could take the visible content within that app and make it 'dance' around the screen with relative ease via Avalon API? So I'm not limited to a defined space in Longhorn? (i'm basing this on the IDE and visual tools that I've used to build some simple apps before). How would the visual dev tool look like?
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'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality) |
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DuffMan
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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PaoloM wrote: |
OscarWilde wrote: |
Then how is MS going to market Longhorn over XP SPx? |
Longhorn is a new operating system. Avalon is an API.
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To the average potential Longhorn customer, it's all the operating system
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FondueDaredevil
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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DuffMan wrote: |
PaoloM wrote: |
OscarWilde wrote: |
Then how is MS going to market Longhorn over XP SPx? |
Longhorn is a new operating system. Avalon is an API.
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To the average potential Longhorn customer, it's all the operating system
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To the average potential Longhorn customer, Microsoft Office is the operating system.
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Jeremy Reimer
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:52 am Post subject: |
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I can't tell you how many people I've run into who are physically incapable of telling the difference between an Office 2000 CD and a Windows 2000 CD.
I know it's not something non-nerds would even want to know. But it bugs me.
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HitScan
More portable than j00 Rear Admiral
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
I can't tell you how many people I've run into who are physically incapable of telling the difference between an Office 2000 CD and a Windows 2000 CD.
I know it's not something non-nerds would even want to know. But it bugs me. |
1:Ok, so you say your computer's acting funny. Do you know what version of Windows it's running?
2:Yeah, Microsoft! Snerd!
1:I hate this job.
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Harbinger
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
I can't tell you how many people I've run into who are physically incapable of telling the difference between an Office 2000 CD and a Windows 2000 CD.
I know it's not something non-nerds would even want to know. But it bugs me. |
Or those that say, when you ask them what OS they have, say "Windows 2000 XP!"
BTW, I've introduced my coworkers to the concept of the "User Appreciation Bat." My manager loves the idea.
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FondueDaredevil
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Harbinger wrote: |
Jeremy Reimer wrote: |
I can't tell you how many people I've run into who are physically incapable of telling the difference between an Office 2000 CD and a Windows 2000 CD.
I know it's not something non-nerds would even want to know. But it bugs me. |
Or those that say, when you ask them what OS they have, say "Windows 2000 XP!"
BTW, I've introduced my coworkers to the concept of the "User Appreciation Bat." My manager loves the idea.
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That's a new name for an old tool ... LART.
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"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
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"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
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Magus
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Luser Appreciation Rectal Tool?
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<Paolo|Work> anything that has to do with Java is by definition stupid
1 The Network is my domain, I shall not want; 2 though it makes me wait upon collision, it leads me to the Internet; 3 it restores my connection. It leads me in paths of hypertext transfer for google's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of power failures, I fear no data corruption; for backups art with me; thy UPS and thy status light, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a firewall before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my CD-R with BurnProof, my buffer never underflows. 6 Surely good deals and pr0n shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Datacenter for ever.
-HitScan
Wilde is a 4' chinese man in a bright pink tutu, lime green pimp hat with peacock feathers, and a purple feather boa, wearing tissue stuffed snakeskin combat boots, holding a gun bigger than he is, smoking a cigarette in the parking garage, trying to look menacing while pouting and head banging to Godsmack I stand alone |
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FondueDaredevil
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Magus wrote: |
Luser Appreciation Rectal Tool? |
LUser Attitude Readjustment Tool.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
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FondueDaredevil
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at August 3rd now. I think the graph lines of expected release and actual release are converging!
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney Rear Admiral
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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FondueDaredevil wrote: |
Looking at August 3rd now. |
That's next Wednesday mother-bitches!
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
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Magus
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Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Huzzah!
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<Paolo|Work> anything that has to do with Java is by definition stupid
1 The Network is my domain, I shall not want; 2 though it makes me wait upon collision, it leads me to the Internet; 3 it restores my connection. It leads me in paths of hypertext transfer for google's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of power failures, I fear no data corruption; for backups art with me; thy UPS and thy status light, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a firewall before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my CD-R with BurnProof, my buffer never underflows. 6 Surely good deals and pr0n shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Datacenter for ever.
-HitScan
Wilde is a 4' chinese man in a bright pink tutu, lime green pimp hat with peacock feathers, and a purple feather boa, wearing tissue stuffed snakeskin combat boots, holding a gun bigger than he is, smoking a cigarette in the parking garage, trying to look menacing while pouting and head banging to Godsmack I stand alone |
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Feign
The Ruiner's a collector... Commander
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Magus wrote: |
Huzzah! |
I fucking love your avatar.
Just finished the movie earlier this evening (series was Sunday night) and I must say CB is a killer anime. I was reserved at first, but the first two episodes cured me of that.
Shout out to Hitsmam for the borrowfication of all seven discs.
Anywho, Vista this, Vista that...whoops! Can't name it Vista! Teehee.
_________________
Champagne ambition on a beer budget.
They probly aren't that worried about selling the PS2 kits in particular, and know that unless there is footage of them grinding up babies for use in the PS3 they'll always sell a hojillion of whatever the fuck they make. - Hitscan on the PS3
(on smoking...) Two later in the night because I can't seem to take a shit without needing the nicotine to relax my ass muscles or some such deal. So took a shit too. - Oscarwilde on smoking
Yea and he said unto the masses "Jet behaveth as ass" and so it was. - Hitscan on Exchange
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Magus
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Glad you enjoyed it, Feign.
You've finished it then, I assume? If not, rest assured it keeps up the pace the whole way.
_________________
<Paolo|Work> anything that has to do with Java is by definition stupid
1 The Network is my domain, I shall not want; 2 though it makes me wait upon collision, it leads me to the Internet; 3 it restores my connection. It leads me in paths of hypertext transfer for google's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of power failures, I fear no data corruption; for backups art with me; thy UPS and thy status light, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a firewall before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my CD-R with BurnProof, my buffer never underflows. 6 Surely good deals and pr0n shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Datacenter for ever.
-HitScan
Wilde is a 4' chinese man in a bright pink tutu, lime green pimp hat with peacock feathers, and a purple feather boa, wearing tissue stuffed snakeskin combat boots, holding a gun bigger than he is, smoking a cigarette in the parking garage, trying to look menacing while pouting and head banging to Godsmack I stand alone |
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MasterOfTheHat
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: In a galaxy far, far, far, far, really really far away...
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Feign wrote: |
Anywho, Vista this, Vista that...whoops! Can't name it Vista! Teehee. |
Why in the crap did they pick such a cheesy name? Oh well... I guess that's the way it goes sometimes.
Someone told me, though that it was supposed to hit MSDN sometime today.
Anyone else heard that?
EDIT: Looks like it was just product keys and he lied to me...
http://www.activewin.com/awin/comments.asp?HeadlineIndex=30856&Group=1
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*Quantum physics texts are an excellent source of 100% of the recommended daily alowance of "WTF!?!" - HitScan
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Magus
Tolkien Loremaster Vice Admiral
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Because marketing people picked the name instead of geeks?
_________________
<Paolo|Work> anything that has to do with Java is by definition stupid
1 The Network is my domain, I shall not want; 2 though it makes me wait upon collision, it leads me to the Internet; 3 it restores my connection. It leads me in paths of hypertext transfer for google's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of power failures, I fear no data corruption; for backups art with me; thy UPS and thy status light, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a firewall before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my CD-R with BurnProof, my buffer never underflows. 6 Surely good deals and pr0n shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Datacenter for ever.
-HitScan
Wilde is a 4' chinese man in a bright pink tutu, lime green pimp hat with peacock feathers, and a purple feather boa, wearing tissue stuffed snakeskin combat boots, holding a gun bigger than he is, smoking a cigarette in the parking garage, trying to look menacing while pouting and head banging to Godsmack I stand alone |
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FondueDaredevil
Linux Looney Rear Admiral
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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FondueDaredevil wrote: |
FondueDaredevil wrote: |
Looking at August 3rd now. |
That's next Wednesday mother-bitches!
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Well, looks like I can download it now! 2.4GB ...
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development
"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998
"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous
Supervillains for Linux!
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Feign
The Ruiner's a collector... Commander
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
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Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Magus wrote: |
Glad you enjoyed it, Feign.
You've finished it then, I assume? If not, rest assured it keeps up the pace the whole way. |
Oh yes, I actually watched an hour of the movie before jumping into the series. I was mesmerized for that hour, that's why it took me so long to stop watching it.
Loved all the episodes, espeically the fridge episode.
_________________
Champagne ambition on a beer budget.
They probly aren't that worried about selling the PS2 kits in particular, and know that unless there is footage of them grinding up babies for use in the PS3 they'll always sell a hojillion of whatever the fuck they make. - Hitscan on the PS3
(on smoking...) Two later in the night because I can't seem to take a shit without needing the nicotine to relax my ass muscles or some such deal. So took a shit too. - Oscarwilde on smoking
Yea and he said unto the masses "Jet behaveth as ass" and so it was. - Hitscan on Exchange
OSY Image Uploader - Use it, you bitches!
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