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Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

I saw this article over on /. and I just had to share it. Essentially it alleges that the reason Linux sucks on the desktop is because of some vast conspiracy involving just about everybody.

My simple retort (based in a large part on my experiences trying to get Linux on my new laptop):

1) Linux has shitty hardware support. This may or may not have something to do with the fact that the assclowns running the kernel development won't provide a stable API for creating binary drivers because they are OSS zealots. I mean I still can't get Linux on my new laptop working 100% due to the many problems. Yet Windows works without a hitch.

2) Linux is fragmented. I used to think the dpkg system in Debian could provide an answer to binary incompatibility across distributions. I was wrong. The emergence of Ubuntu, its Universe repositories and the resulting package incompatibilities have put that hope to rest. Of course RPM sucks and ebuilds well.... you have to compile those in order to avoid the problems.

3) Commercial consumer Linux distros SUCK. Yeah they play the forced upgrade game. Who wants to buy and upgrade their OS every 6 months? I mean who are we kidding here? At least Apple makes their yearly/18 month upgrades simple enough that a child could install them, but Linux... yeah right. The Ubuntu install would've been simple if it just would've *gasp* automatically either picked the right driver for the video chipset in my laptop (fglrx) or just use the vesa driver instead of enabling the ati driver that locks up within .01 seconds.

4) Linux is not free. No matter how many times the penguins tell themselves this - it will not be so. I have invested so many man hours in trying and mostly failing to make Linux work on my precious laptops that to say Linux is free is just another way of admitting that my time is worthless**

** And so long as there is porn to be viewed you can be damn sure that this isn't the case... Very Happy

lewis · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

Why do you say the driver API/ABI is not stable?

It's understandable that Linux is shit, given that it's written by a random bunch of unpaid goons, but that's no excuse. It's still shit.

But then what piece of software isn't? Is there ANY software that you can look at and say "This Is Good. It Works. Always." Seriously. Well?
_________________
"I don't think that's where their brains are." - Paul Hill

Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject:

Ah, nothing like a good old conspiracy theory.

I remember Wil Zachmann promoting the idea of a giant conspiracy to stop OS/2 back in the day. Of course these days he's a complete MS-head, he might as well change his name to Wil.NET. OMG THE CONSPIRACY WAS ALL TRUE! THEY GOT TO HIM AS WELL! NOBODY IS SAFE!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!

OscarWilde · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject:

whoa, is this article new or old? Can't be an article for this year or even decade. Damn.
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)

'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality)

Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

MasterOfTheHat · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

Yeah, that one's sad... I quit after the first page... So many things in even that much that could be butchered...
_________________

For my fellow OSYers - You know you're addicted to programming when:"The people you respect most you have never physically seen or spoken to, but you always bow to their knowledge."

*Quantum physics texts are an excellent source of 100% of the recommended daily alowance of "WTF!?!" - HitScan

support.microsoft's cause for a 0x0000007f STOP error:
"• Your computer has hardware or software problems. "

Magus · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:12 pm Post subject:

I stopped reading the article after "over on /." Very Happy

Judging from the comments here, my suspicion that it was typical mindless zealotry seems to be right on the mark.
_________________
<Paolo|Work> anything that has to do with Java is by definition stupid

1 The Network is my domain, I shall not want; 2 though it makes me wait upon collision, it leads me to the Internet; 3 it restores my connection. It leads me in paths of hypertext transfer for google's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of power failures, I fear no data corruption; for backups art with me; thy UPS and thy status light, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a firewall before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my CD-R with BurnProof, my buffer never underflows. 6 Surely good deals and pr0n shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Datacenter for ever.
-HitScan

Wilde is a 4' chinese man in a bright pink tutu, lime green pimp hat with peacock feathers, and a purple feather boa, wearing tissue stuffed snakeskin combat boots, holding a gun bigger than he is, smoking a cigarette in the parking garage, trying to look menacing while pouting and head banging to Godsmack I stand alone

Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

lewis · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:34 am Post subject:

Wow. Stupidity abounds. I remember having some horrible fun getting the nFORCE kernel module to compile, but I'd never really thought about why it was doing it before.

Irix has a garuntee that any software you compile on 6.5.x will run on 6.5.y for any values of x and y. They quote it in big letters in the release notes and everything. Unfortunately it's bollocks - just for one example, /dev/random didn't exist prior to .21, so if you compile something which uses a configure script it'll have that hard coded in and will shit its pants on a version which doesn't have /dev/random. GOOD WORK. Same thing happens with some C string functions. This is of course basically open source's fault, because if it wasn't for all the wildly differing platforms there would be no need for configure scripts, or worse that autoconf/automake nightmare. And guess which OS SGI are now pouring all their efforts into...

Never been a problem with kernel modules though. That's just retarded.
_________________
"I don't think that's where their brains are." - Paul Hill

pdampier · Lieutenant Joined: 30 Jul 2001 Posts: 326

Anyone with a problem is just using the wrong distro.

HitScan · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject:

HitScan · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:37 pm Post subject:

Harbinger · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:49 pm Post subject:

I recently tried to get into Linux again, this time with Ubuntu ($DistroDuJour Wink

) because of all the positive recommendations I've seen for it as LOTD.

I've tried to install it (Hoary Hedgehog) on a bone-stock IBM NetVista but it won't recognize the onboard video (and you can't do squat at 640x480). Several hours of searching and trying the disparate recommendations all led to the same failure. Thinking that my hardware may be defective, I tried another (known working) model since we're swimming in them here at work. Nope, same problem. Give up #1.

This week I tried installing 5.10 (latest) on the Dell Latitude laptop that work gave me gratis. This is a model from 1999, so there's no reason why U5.10 shouldn't recognize all my hardware, right? Well, it won't even complete its installation. Thinking the HD might be bad, I tried installing Win2K on it just to see what happens... and it installed and works just fine. Give up #2. Sad

<rhetocial>
Note to Lunixzealots who may shout things like "user errar!" and stuff: I'm a dad with two kids at home, I work two jobs, and I enjoy spending time with my family. I don't have the time to search randomly on the web for hours looking for fixes to things that should work OOB. And if the response to that is that I'm not "in the target audience" then someone needs to re-evaluate what you're trying to accomplish. [Hint: Computers are supposed to make our lives *easier*.]
</rhetorical>
_________________

Gaah. I don’t tend to bother about slashdot, because quite frankly, the whole _point_ of slashdot is to have this big public wanking session with people getting together and making their own “insightful” comment on any random topic, whether they know anything about it or not. -- Linus Torvalds, 20 Aug 2005

I heard that even small amounts of smam are highly unstable. Like anti-matter, only with polka dots. -- Mord

I don't make up rumors, I just falsify them. -- HitScan

Pentium-M eats G4 alive so quickly that the G4 is still breathing when the P-M shits it out. End of story. -- Hat Monster

HitScan · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:53 pm Post subject:

Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:00 pm Post subject:

I think it's better just to wait for the Pustulent Porcupine release, as it's going to be really great. If somewhat prickly and disgusting.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan

"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord

"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named

Magus · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:02 pm Post subject:

I'm scared to ask, but are those actual names? Surprised

_________________
<Paolo|Work> anything that has to do with Java is by definition stupid

1 The Network is my domain, I shall not want; 2 though it makes me wait upon collision, it leads me to the Internet; 3 it restores my connection. It leads me in paths of hypertext transfer for google's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of power failures, I fear no data corruption; for backups art with me; thy UPS and thy status light, they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a firewall before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my CD-R with BurnProof, my buffer never underflows. 6 Surely good deals and pr0n shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Datacenter for ever.
-HitScan

Wilde is a 4' chinese man in a bright pink tutu, lime green pimp hat with peacock feathers, and a purple feather boa, wearing tissue stuffed snakeskin combat boots, holding a gun bigger than he is, smoking a cigarette in the parking garage, trying to look menacing while pouting and head banging to Godsmack I stand alone

Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject:

Warty Warthog and Hoary Hedgehog are actual names. The rest we made up.

The funny thing is, you can't tell the difference between the real and fake names without being told!
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan

"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord

"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named

FondueDaredevil

Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

FondueDaredevil

FondueDaredevil · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject:

Let me add that I cringe everytime I read a Linux user saying LotD is imminant.

LotD is the Peak Oil of the Linux community.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development

"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998

"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous

Supervillains for Linux!

Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

Jay · **Ex OSYer** Captain Joined: 09 May 2003 Posts: 1589

FondueDaredevil

I was going to point-by-point your long post but it just isn't worth the effort.

First, Windows NT and Linux have existed about the same length of time but the hardware is all manufactured and adjusted to work with Microsoft software.

Second, what Linus says regarding LotD is irrelevant; he's a kernel hacker not an Interface designer. When he talks about memory management or cross-platform compatibility I listen but when he discusses GUI design I take it with a grain of salt.

Finally, as far as 'Windows has eclipsed Linux in virtually every way imaginable in that time period' you clearly see the world through Microsoft-colored glasses to make such a bold statement.
_________________
"Our products just aren't engineered for security."
- Brian Valentine, Senior VP in charge of MS Windows Development

"I call on those who question the motives of the president and his national security advisers to join with the rest of America in presenting a united front to our enemies abroad." Sen. Dick Durbin, 1998

"There's no set architecture in Linux. All roads lead to madness" - William Hilf, Microsoft homonculous

Supervillains for Linux!