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'Consider the source'
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OscarWilde
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:57 am    Post subject: 'Consider the source' Reply with quote

Lets bomb San Fransisco!.

Quite amusing actually. I don't see how denying the military to recruit on school campus is enough to warrant such a rant, but I do know that at least it's funny to hear stupid talk sometimes. Reminds me of Madan with a job at the radio station. Did San Fran outright deny complete military recruitment in the city? Or is it only on school campus? Actually, it shouldn't be happening the first place, period, but I don't know what it means 'to use the campus grounds to recruit.'

None the less, it's funny, and I had a good chuckle. 'We won't give you a nickle!!!' California is one of the four richest states in the US, and not only that is the major blood line for distribution of merchandise to the rest of the US. That to me sounds like it's a state that can do well on it's own if it were Annexed from the US. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having studied and lived in LA, and travelled around California, I (jokingly) support the idea of California being an independent country*. California Love! And I mean it, I have strong sentiment for California, and consider it home away from home. All the times I arrived in LA I always feel like I'm back home.



*Don't know if you guys remember or know this, but there was/is a group in California that I believe actively pursued the notion of making California an independent country.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of SF, watch this: http://www.beam.tv/beamreels/reel_player.php?reel=xqYdjhtgMY&reel_file=rFXGpwNCSZ&fs=1
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: 'Consider the source' Reply with quote

OscarWilde wrote:
Actually, it shouldn't be happening the first place, period
Er, what shouldn't? I'm not sure what you mean here, so I'm going to address both possibilities that occurred.

1) Military recruiting on campuses. How exactly is this different from any other profession sending recruiters? For the physical aspects of military service, people are likely at their best in their 20s, when they're in/finishing school. For the mental aspect, I speculate they target college kids for officer training, based on the idea that college implies some amount of brains. So what's the problem here? Nobody's being coerced to join, just encouraged.

2) Military recruiting, period. So what do we do? Reinstate the draft? Guess just how popular that would be. Should we stop actively recruiting for the services? Boy, there's all kinds of folks who'd love to see that happen. Most of them are the kind who want us dead. Please don't tell me you're naive enough to think that the military could just be dropped.

Quote:
That to me sounds like it's a state that can do well on it's own if it were Annexed from the US. Very Happy
The rest of us would be only too happy to see California go away; it's unanimously regarded as a freak show, "the Land of Fruits and Nuts". Very Happy

And now to see if I can go back to sleep. Hopefully this post will still make sense when I've had a bit more.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: 'Consider the source' Reply with quote

Magus wrote:

1) Military recruiting on campuses. How exactly is this different from any other profession sending recruiters?


That's where I wasn't sure about what they meant with recruitment on campus grounds. I just assumed that military people walked on campus and started approaching kids to join. I've heard stories of kids being approached at malls, car parks, etc., and I thought HS campuses was one of those things too. I wasn't thinking about those days when they set up booths and tables for various colleges and their reps to talk to the kids and give out information. I didn't even think a city or govt. had a say in that regard.

Hence the confusion from this side of the world. HK is small, so instead of having separate schools organize their own day, the convention center is booked up and then schools are given specific days where the students can then go and talk to uni reps., or various industry that send their own reps. Don't forget, I went to college there, so I have no idea how the HS system works there.


Quote:
Most of them are the kind who want us dead.


Very melodramatic. Is this how you are when you're semi-awake? Laughing
I have heard that military recruitment in the US is very aggressive, as I pointed above, where young men are approached at car parks and malls. Not entirely sure why that would make anyone who opposes that to want you dead. It's like I don't like evangelist approaching me on the streets selling me the way of Jesus, that don't mean I'm the devil or believe wish or want something melodramatic.


Quote:
Please don't tell me you're naive enough to think that the military could just be dropped.


Looks like you're seeing something in my words that doesn't exist. I tried to make my post as light hearted as possible. I just find it absurd that an American radio host publicly says he'd like to see the Al-Queada bomb a building in the US. I hope you're not so hardline right* to actually agree with the sentiment (perhaps not the notion) of O'Rielly (sp?).










*Just being silly off course, as I know in your full awake state you wouldn't want to see any city in the world to be bombed by any terrorist group. So lets just laugh at mr. bob and his silly words and hope he's held accountable for what he said. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lewis wrote:
Speaking of SF, watch this: http://www.beam.tv/beamreels/reel_player.php?reel=xqYdjhtgMY&reel_file=rFXGpwNCSZ&fs=1


Seen various clips of the making already. Pretty damn cool I think.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's shit. I mean I'm sure it was fun and all, but they should have done it with CG - they could have had camera moves inside the cloud of balls and following shots and bullet time and all sorts of fun shit.

The result looks CG anyway, what with the neon colours and high framerate slowmo bits and lack of sound, so your average viewer isn't going to get the whole "we actually did this, we're that cool" thing.

And what the hell kind of bastard word is "Bravia" anyway? Yuck.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lewis wrote:
I think it's shit. I mean I'm sure it was fun and all, but they should have done it with CG - they could have had camera moves inside the cloud of balls and following shots and bullet time and all sorts of fun shit.

The result looks CG anyway, what with the neon colours and high framerate slowmo bits and lack of sound, so your average viewer isn't going to get the whole "we actually did this, we're that cool" thing.


Thanks for cheering me up Lewis. I do love ironies. If CG was used we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Infact, if CG was used, you wouldn't have posted the link to the making of the ad. I bet when this idea was thrown out during brainstorming, the next thought or the one right after was, 'lets document the making', and let the buzz of Sony using all these balls for an ad. sell the TV for us. And yep, the buzz you buzzed just made me and everyone here more aware of the Sony Bravia line. Ad worked only because of how it was done. A CG ad with fancy effects would have just been another CG ad with fancy effects.

Oh the irony of the seller selling without being aware of selling, which the lack of awareness is in itself the seller; but even more delicious when the seller says if he were to sell he'd do it better but not understanding he already sold what he was supposed to sell.

I laugh my self silly at how even intelligent people are made fools on a day to day basis. Not saying I haven't been made to look a fool myself. Just fun to laugh when it does happen to someone else. So thank ya once again. What a yummy irony. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lewis, you mentioned how you read 'Thud!' (I forget the thread it's in) and I myself finished the book a while back. I was on a Terry Pratchett run myself. Re-read 'Monstrous Regiment' and 'Going Postal' again. All of which are hard back since I re-read them a lot. Might as well get them to last.

I finally got the paperback of 'State of Fear' by Michael Crichton because I rarely ever re-read his books. Except for 'Jurassic Park' and 'The Lost World' but that's only because I sorta like dinosaurs. I re-read 'Andromeda Strain' and remembered why I didn't like the book the first time I read it.
Going back to 'State of Fear': it's basically a mouth piece for Crichton's views on global warming. I agree with the views since I already knew that global warming was a headline buzz word used by the media and not really understood by the general public. However, the story seems to be very thin. Character development is sometimes forced but better then a lot of the trash novels available out there. I have read quite a few Clive Cussler books, so I'm pretty tolerant of crappy and formulaic writing. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Reminds me of Madan with a job at the radio station.


You mentioned He Who Shall Not Be Named!!!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a point OW, but I suspect that most people who are likely to buy Bravias don't give a flying fuck how the ad was made and see it as just another piece of computerised eye candy if they think about it at all.

And people who are interested in how it was made are going to know about the line anyway if they're into that kind of thing.

Freakily enough the last three books I bought were Thud!, Going Postal and Monstrous Regiment. And Equal Rites which I haven't read since I was about twelve. He's got a lot cleverer.

Have you read any of the recent Robert Rankins? I got put off a bit when he started churning out random books at high speed with no connecting theme. I might try Witches Of Chiswick or The Hollow Chocoloate Bunnies Of Death or whatever that one's actually called. Except I think I want to read some Neil Gaiman and Don DeLillo and Thomas Pynchon too... a library would be a good idea, I must look into that Surprised
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AYB gives a big Rolling Eyes to ideas against on-campus military recruitment because. The root of these people's angst is the current administration. Like GwB or hate him, the military is an honorable profession.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have heard that military recruitment in the US is very aggressive


They sit in a booth on career day, or other days. The whole SF thing is highly hipocritical.

grrr!

As far as O'Reilly, he's a target because people listen to him. AYB finds that he agrees with him on some points. O'Reilly was angry at the SF voters and let it get away from him in the form of a rant. We all rant sometimes, it's just impossible to take it back when you're on camera. AYB thinks the "preditory" nature of the recruitment needs to be looked into. He also doubts if it's all that preditory and is just a statement of misdirection thinly veiling politics.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote:
O'Reilly was angry at the SF voters and let it get away from him in the form of a rant. We all rant sometimes, it's just impossible to take it back when you're on camera.
Indeed. I don't take that comment seriously at all. In bad taste, yes. Worthy of the fuss that will likely be raised, no.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh.

Bill O'Reilly is a hypocritical tool. News at 11. Or not.

On campus military recruiting - can't say I care for it though I kind of feel the same way about anybody else recruiting people on campus. It's amazing how many college kids I've seen that can't manage to write their own resume... or even know the basics of applying for a job.

Still when it comes to military recruiting nowadays only two people are signing up as I see it: 1) People who really want to get into the thick of it and 2) People who are very very very very very stupid and actually believe that they'll just train on one weekend of the month with the Reserve unit that they've joined. I've seen people complain about shit tactics like stop loss and all of that but at the end of the day they volunteered knowing 100% what was going on in the world. I mean really whose fault is that?

As far as O'Reilly goes - he can stick it. The fact so many people still watch him proves that once again Americans would rather be duped by yet another talking head rather than thinking through the issues themselves.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magus wrote:
AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote:
O'Reilly was angry at the SF voters and let it get away from him in the form of a rant. We all rant sometimes, it's just impossible to take it back when you're on camera.
Indeed. I don't take that comment seriously at all. In bad taste, yes. Worthy of the fuss that will likely be raised, no.


Exactly my point. Lets ignore the fuss, step back, and just laugh. You gotta admit it's a very silly rant. Which was what I was trying to do. No attempt at creating a political thread for or against military recruitment. I have nothing against the military anyway, considering I have a few friends in the US military to begin with and they are all really nice guys.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lewis wrote:
You have a point OW, but I suspect that most people who are likely to buy Bravias don't give a flying fuck how the ad was made and see it as just another piece of computerised eye candy if they think about it at all.


No, you're right, they don't care about how the ad was made. Just that the brand Bravia is now on the public buzzing and now everyone knows what the new brand of Sony LCD TV's are. Even if they are not interested, Sony Bravia is what they know. Ask them what models for the Philips, Samsung, etc.., and i'm willing to bet that most people won't know.


Quote:
Freakily enough the last three books I bought were Thud!, Going Postal and Monstrous Regiment. And Equal Rites which I haven't read since I was about twelve. He's got a lot cleverer.

I agree with that. Pratchett has become more profound story teller then just a simple fantasy story teller.

Quote:
Have you read any of the recent Robert Rankins? I got put off a bit when he started churning out random books at high speed with no connecting theme. I might try Witches Of Chiswick or The Hollow Chocoloate Bunnies Of Death or whatever that one's actually called. Except I think I want to read some Neil Gaiman and Don DeLillo and Thomas Pynchon too... a library would be a good idea, I must look into that Surprised


I haven't read any new Rankin books, but if I can, i'll pick them up. I do love Neil Gaiman and was almost going to buy his book (can't remember the name) about humans that are gods (I think it's a sequel to American Gods).
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OscarWilde wrote:
Lewis, you mentioned how you read 'Thud!' (I forget the thread it's in) and I myself finished the book a while back. I was on a Terry Pratchett run myself. Re-read 'Monstrous Regiment' and 'Going Postal' again. All of which are hard back since I re-read them a lot. Might as well get them to last.


Yeah while these are great, I recommend you do read Night Watch again as well. I feel it is better than either Monstrous Regiment or Going Postal.

Thud was funny with the book in the book.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote:
AYB gives a big Rolling Eyes to ideas against on-campus military recruitment because. The root of these people's angst is the current administration. Like GwB or hate him, the military is an honorable profession.

Quoted for great truth...

and because I'm too lazy to read through the rest of the thread, I'll just say this:
OW: You're an idiot... that is all
Magus: You, also, are an idiot, but with right-wing tendencies, so you're okay...
lewis: I didn't really read your posts, but I'm sure you're an idiot also
Jeremy and jay: you are both always full of shit, so I assume that's what the case is here, too
and AYB: As always, YOU ARE MIGHTY!

And if any of you took this as something other than the normal OSY silliness, take this lit torch and go talk to Thundar! Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MasterOfTheHat wrote:
lewis: I didn't really read your posts, but I'm sure you're an idiot also

Yessir!

Quote:
take this lit torch and go talk to Thundar! Smile

Eeeew!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 'Consider the source' Reply with quote

Magus wrote:
So what do we do? Reinstate the draft?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

For a great many reasons.

here's a few:

1) A professional military class is dangerous to a democracy

2) All segments of the population should feel connected to the military

3) All segments of the population should contribute public service

4) Military adventurism (like Iraq) should be equally shared by all segments of the population

I'm convinced the primary reason we're not seeing massive public demonstations against Iraq, unlike Viet Nam, is because of the lack of a draft.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, if they brought back the draft it would probably mean the end of the government. There' s no way they could sell it to the public now. I think they may have always known this.

I'm reading a fascinating book now about the Vietnam war (entitled Perils of Dominance), which presents a compelling and well-documented argument that the whole "Domino Theory" line that we have all been fed for all these years was complete bullshit, and that US intervention was actually based on the fact that US intelligence told them that they had overwhelming military superiority over the Soviet Union (albeit the gap was slowly diminishing) The USSR actually had very little influence over other countries and was constantly bargaining from a diplomatically weak position. In summary, the US intervened because they could, not because they had to.

It's a fascinating book and the parallels to the story in Iraq today are somewhat disquieting.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 'Consider the source' Reply with quote

gisboth wrote:
Magus wrote:
So what do we do? Reinstate the draft?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

If they want to win they better consider it. Things aren't looking so hot right now. We got a bunch of guys with AK-47's and carbombs giving us a run for our money. Most powerful military in the world my rear end. But JR is right - doing so would be a political nightmare as the lie would finally come full circle. I doubt many people could reconcile it either.

I mean you can't just leave and obviously we aren't doing as well as we should be given the amount of time we've put into this thing. So like so many things in life it has become a choice: Do a half ass job and hope to weasel out of it at some point or go full bore and do the actual job you meant to do in the first place.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think O'Reilly is a smart guy, even though I disagree with him a lot. I stopped paying attention to him because he turns towards sensationalism and bullying constantly, which ruins any point he is trying to make. It's a shame really.

The general public seems to like the sensationalist, sound-bite driven approach. O'Reillys ratings remain high even though his show has turned pretty crappy.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

So like so many things in life it has become a choice: Do a half ass job and hope to weasel out of it at some point or go full bore and do the actual job you meant to do in the first place.


But the trouble is that more troops would equal more troop deaths, which would be politically untenable.

The reason they went in with such half-assed troop levels was because Rumsfeld thought that technological superiority would be enough to win the day. To some extent this was true in Afghanistan. But they didn't count on the population fracturing and the suicide bombers (some Al Quaeda, some remnants of the Baathist army, some foreign mercenaries, etc) Ignorance of the region and its history and hubris at overwhelming American technological superiority brought about this debacle.

Just having the best guns isn't enough. You can win all the battles and still lose the war, if the people aren't on your side. The humble, powerless peasants often wind up carrying the day. Once the hearts and minds are lost, the war is lost, even if you don't know it yet.

You think they would have figured this out from Vietnam.

Or hell, from China in 1949.

Or France in 1789.

Or... well, you get the idea.

Not that I know anything about anything.
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"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
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