Pegasus3d.com

MacUser3of5 · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:26 am Post subject: This is hilarious...

Wow, blind evangelism in action...

http://www.angelfire.com/mac/macrevolution/mainpage.html

I like my TiBook (my favorite machine), but daamn this guy has lost his mind. seriously.

Thundar · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:15 pm Post subject:

*snicker snicker*
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Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:21 pm Post subject:

Another quality shite, er, site from Angelfire! Home of Pop-Up Irritants(tm)!!

The really funny thing is this: "MacMan" is none other than Joe Ragosta, who made his not-so-triumphant return to comp.sys.mac.advocacy about eight months ago. You can read about Joe in the "iZealots" page of OSY. I suppose I should update that page now!
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jdsmith575 · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:22 pm Post subject:

It would help slightly is the site didn't look so bad.
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Madan · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:37 pm Post subject:

Socrates · Captain Joined: 27 Feb 2001 Posts: 2941

Ahh, actually windows is dominant because not only is it good, but it's owners ruthlessly used their monopoly position to drive all competitors from the market, or limit their scope of influence, ie apple.

Not to mention the competitors, if any, are so inept that MSFT couldn't help but become dominant.

s

Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 1:53 pm Post subject:

Ah yes, the mythical "marketing" bugaboo.

Apple didn't fail because of a lack of marketing. The "1984" ad was one of the most expensive, spectacular, and well-remembered marketing campaigns in the entire history of high technology.

The problem was that people didn't want to buy the 128k Mac because it was too expensive, incompatible with everyone's existing software, and didn't do very much (Being able to have different fonts in MacWrite 1.0 didn't help most people when a) you had to print it out on a dot-matrix printer and b) you were limited to 8 pages)

Then when Apple made Macs that people were willing to buy, they jacked up the price to ludicrous levels and refused any offers to license their operating system to other manufacturers.

To sum up: They were greedy, and stupid, and they were punished for it.

All the crappy websites in the world won't change that simple fact.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan

"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord

"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named

Socrates · Captain Joined: 27 Feb 2001 Posts: 2941

Madan · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:30 pm Post subject:

Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 3:05 pm Post subject:

I think when most of us think of "Marketing" we picture the smarmy cubicle dwellers in Dilbert who caused the brain-sucking aliens to starve to death.

I don't think "MacMan" was criticizing Apple's pricing and product positioning when he wrote that stuff about how Evil Microsoft Took Over The World Because It Had Better Marketing. I think he was just being stupid.

I sent him some email. Should cause his little brain to explode.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan

"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord

"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named

DrPizza · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 3:23 pm Post subject:

Madan · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:20 pm Post subject:

Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 9:51 pm Post subject:

I don't think you can use the <> symbol when the element on the right is contained within the element on the left.

If I was geekier, I'd know the proper code syntax for a subset, but I don't.

Anyway I just finished reading a book on Microsoft management. It explains exactly why Microsoft dominates the world:

1. They hire extremely smart people, and
2. They focus entirely on success.

It has virtually nothing to do with marketing. Marketing is like an afterthought. How much marketing did Microsoft have to do for DOS? It was bundled with every PC. Microsoft was smart and saw an opportunity to dominate the operating system landscape, with DOS, then Windows, then Windows NT.

That's all they care about. Apple is an old-school hardware company that only cares about shifting plastic boxes, and depends almost entirely on image (created by their marketing department) to survive. They do have a lot of smart people, too, but there's no real goal, other than survival and "making cool stuff".

Microsoft doesn't have a goal to make cool stuff. Cool has no meaning to Microsoft. Microsoft wants to win, to dominate, to control. And they are focussed entirely on doing just that, and guess what? They did. They won.

So what? I use both. They're practically the same thing these days. Websites like Joe "Macman" Ragosta's are deader than Charlie Chaplin's wang. There's no point to them. Same with the Battlefront. What's the frigging point? USB 2.0 versus Firewire?? This is what the great user interface battles of ages past have been reduced to??

I mean, even David K. Every realized the utter pointlessness of cross-platform arguing in the 21st century.

One of these days "Macman" is going to wake up and realize that he wasted his life.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan

"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord

"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named

arhra · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:12 pm Post subject:

arhra · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:17 pm Post subject:

oh, wonderful. it converts it to an entity, and IE then fails to display it.

since i'm bored, you could also say:

marketing ∋ advertising

or:

advertising ∈ marketing

neither of which will actually show up properly, but hey...
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FondueDaredevil · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:52 pm Post subject:

Madan · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:30 am Post subject:

Evil Merlin · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:44 am Post subject:

FondueDaredevil,

Same goes with those morons like ema and Hitman who claim Linux is the be all and end all of OS's.

Actually same goes with any fucking Zealot. They are useless.

MacUser3of5 · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 10:03 am Post subject:

this dethroning won't happen. It's not the same as a telco or a car company(yes, this is a car analogy). They don't all share the same 'road' (meaning:code and functionality). Porting apps isn't fun for anyone, people don't like learning new systems, and people don't like buying new apps. So that means...

MS has won the desktop. Past tense. It's already happened. They aren't 'going down' like anti-MS zealots believe. They aren't going anywhere.

All Apple/Linux/etc can hope to do is gain a reasonable piece of the desktop pie.

Thundar · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 11:21 am Post subject:

Madan · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 11:54 am Post subject:

FondueDaredevil · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:03 pm Post subject:

Well said, Madan, well said!

FD
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Jeremy Reimer · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:58 pm Post subject:

The thing is, Madan, that Microsoft spends billions of dollars each year in R&D to try to figure out what the next big paradigm is so they can dominate that as well.

That's why we have things like the XBox and .NET and Mira and PocketPC and the like. It's all strategic. People make fun of the XBox but given the total entrenchment and domination of Sony and the PS2, they've done incredibly well in a very short time, and they are in this for the long haul.

Microsoft knows that they were lucky. That's what makes them different from all the other tech companies (save, perhaps, for Intel) There's probably stuff in Microsoft research labs today that will blow the world away in a few years (as well as a bunch of stuff that will bomb as bad as Microsoft Bob)

Anyway, the PC desktop isn't going away any time soon. It was supposed to be killed by:

1. "Interactive Multiplayers" ala 3DO
2. Set-top boxes ala CD32, Phillips CDI, WebTV
3. Network computers ala Sun Rays
4. Internet appliances ala Sony eVilla
5. Next-gen consoles ala Playstation 2

Guess what? None of these made a tiny fraction of a dent into PC sales, and with the exception of the PS2 (which never did replace a computer but wound up replacing a game console and a DVD player) they all died spectacularly laughable deaths.

And good riddance. They can have my PC when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers. And Microsoft won the war for the PC. Period.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan

"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord

"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 1:12 pm Post subject:

Madan · Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 1:29 pm Post subject: