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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: Journalism... |
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'There is much to be said in favor of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the
community.' - Oscar Wilde*
*The real Oscar Wilde, the author, poet, and playwright.
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lewis
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. It's weird when you realise that album reviewers are people just like you, making shit up.
I'm not sure they're all that stupid.
Although. Most of the hardware reviews linked from The Inquirer (yeah, I know...) are written by morons calling themselves journalists. Or else thirteen year olds. It's hard to say.
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Jeremy Reimer
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree with everything you said, except of course it doesn't apply to my Ars news posts, reviews, or articles. 
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"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan
"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord
"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named
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AllYorBaseRBelong2Us
Infernal Smam Lord
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: |
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AYB finds Oscar Wilde's quote very true, and notes that he said nothing about Blogs (many of which AYB finds more enjoyable, factual, and well analysed than the shit people pass off in the sports pages of print these says)
Jeremy's stuff is top notch. It's like what AYB finds good about bloggers: Journalism skills to express the content of an educated mind, instead of a mind educated in writing, without a frickin idea of what they speak.
_________________
This and other statistics can be culled from Jeremy Reimer's Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002, a very impressive piece of information gathering. The numbers tell some very interesting stories.
- http://lowendmac.com/musings/03/0131.html
Man, I need to get out more. You know smam is getting to you when you go to a canadian restaurant and start wondering about moose cock. -OscarWilde  |
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Jeremy Reimer
King of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Thank you AYB, I appreciate your comments.
_________________
"Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
-- Carl Sagan
"Its not a rule. Its just something I noticed. Several of us have more than one sig." - Mord
"No, you are a troll, and I should have never let you back to Ars in after the first 16,000 bannings." - Caesar, to He Who Shall Not Be Named
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Ummm...Oscar Wilde lived between 1854 to 1900, and I'm fairly sure that neither blogs nor the internet existed in his time. So while I think it's fine to use his quote in todays context, I don't think one should suggest that Oscar Wilde had any opinion of today's blogs, hardware reviews, etc..
As for my opinion: I dislike blogs immensely for any other purpose beyond a personal journal individuals like to share. I don't think a blog is any more or less susceptible to bias and inaccuracy then a news agency is. Equally this post on this message board is no different from any blog posted on the internet: a person expressing their view to which others can then later comment on. I suppose a blog can be 'subscribed' too and perhaps that is the appeal of blogs?
I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know why a blog is any different from what I or anyone posts here on OSY, or on Arstechnica, or on any message board for that matter. And I don't know why there is this increasing trend of people I know who think blogs are more valid then various news media, when their main gripe is bias and inaccuracy, to which I ask how does one know a blogger is less bias and less inaccurate.
The answer which I am beginning to suspect really is: 'Well blogs fit more or less into my world views, and rarely go beyond the breaking point of what I will accept. And if a blogger starts to penetrate the breaking point - i.e. I can disagree with a blogger, but there is a limit to how much I can disagree before I need to completely have to ignore - the blogger has simply become unreliable and I will unsubscribe to the blog.'
I do really enjoy reading my friend's blogs about their weekends or daily thoughts. If I want the truth, I assume I'll never really get it, since the truth is the philosopher's stone, and as far as I'm aware, no one has got their hand on that.
-The Anti Blog
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality) |
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AllYorBaseRBelong2Us
Infernal Smam Lord
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Location: Gaurding the toenail clipper bag that holds you all!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Well, there's a difference between an off-the-cuff remark type of blog and a blog like www.aarrongleeman.com, a baseball oriented site that unlike mainstream journalists, doesn't pass old-fashioned notions and feel-good malarky around as "sports writing"
Instead, Gleeman uses numberical analysis and logic, and there's quite a few other sites like this as well. Think about it, a journalist's column, especially if opinion related, is often no more than his off-the-cuff blog that you are paying for.
_________________
This and other statistics can be culled from Jeremy Reimer's Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002, a very impressive piece of information gathering. The numbers tell some very interesting stories.
- http://lowendmac.com/musings/03/0131.html
Man, I need to get out more. You know smam is getting to you when you go to a canadian restaurant and start wondering about moose cock. -OscarWilde |
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PaoloM
The King Of Crap
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| And I don't know why there is this increasing trend of people I know who think blogs are more valid then various news media, when their main gripe is bias and inaccuracy, to which I ask how does one know a blogger is less bias and less inaccurate. |
As AYB said, usually a blogger is someone who is deeply knowledgeable about the subject and hapazardly happens to put it in some writing form. While, on the other hand, the "news media" is composed by professional writers that have little to no knowledge about the subject they're writing about.
PS: of course, no generalizations.
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 9449
Location: Somewhere that seems to be no where
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote: |
Well, there's a difference between an off-the-cuff remark type of blog and a blog like www.aarrongleeman.com, a baseball oriented site that unlike mainstream journalists, doesn't pass old-fashioned notions and feel-good malarky around as "sports writing"
Instead, Gleeman uses numberical analysis and logic, and there's quite a few other sites like this as well. Think about it, a journalist's column, especially if opinion related, is often no more than his off-the-cuff blog that you are paying for. |
You're confusing journalism with editorials. And yes, the big problem today with the news is that editorials are becoming a significant part of the news. Journalism used to be about reporting the news, not giving an added opinion to the news being reported.
As for the sports blog: well, lets be realistic, sports isn't really 'news' in the sense that it isn't entirely significant to our society. I'm not saying sports isn't important - I think sports is necessary - but sports news does not give us a better social and political view of a society. Though I'm sure you could argue how an athlete from a poor neighborhood became a pro and makes millions of dollars a year; but then again, that's really just a rags to riches story and still has nothing to do with current social and political climates.
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality)
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AllYorBaseRBelong2Us
Infernal Smam Lord
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Joined: 25 Feb 2001
Posts: 9706
Location: Gaurding the toenail clipper bag that holds you all!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| As for the sports blog: well, lets be realistic, sports isn't really 'news' in the sense that it isn't entirely significant to our society. |
Well, news isn't just limited to things of vast social importance. That one blog was just an example of how goods blogs can be.
_________________
This and other statistics can be culled from Jeremy Reimer's Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002, a very impressive piece of information gathering. The numbers tell some very interesting stories.
- http://lowendmac.com/musings/03/0131.html
Man, I need to get out more. You know smam is getting to you when you go to a canadian restaurant and start wondering about moose cock. -OscarWilde
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 9449
Location: Somewhere that seems to be no where
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| PaoloM wrote: |
As AYB said, usually a blogger is someone who is deeply knowledgeable about the subject and hapazardly happens to put it in some writing form. While, on the other hand, the "news media" is composed by professional writers that have little to no knowledge about the subject they're writing about. |
That is simply not true at all:
Often in the sports media, those that report it tend to be heavily involved in the field. Many times you'll get even ex-coaches, ex-players (some of them that have received many accolades). Don't know how you could be even more involved then that. Incidentally, ESPN does have a 'blog' of a former basketball player which one can read updates every week. Don't know how a person who analyzes numbers is more deeply involved then a player or coach who actually is part of the game that provides the numbers to the spectator.
The example above I gave for sports can be found in the other topics that news media reports on. You're always going to have the really bad news media sources which we can always point to and say the journalism is bad, and I'd agree with you.
However the good news journals require a journalist not only to be experienced in journalism but to have in depth knowledge and experience in the field they are reporting on.
I'm not saying that bloggers lack both writing skills and in depth knowledge. I just don't think bloggers are above journalism as they are subject to the same criticism journalism is faced with. You can cherry pick, subscribe via RSS to your favorite bloggers and be done with it. The same can be done when you find good journals online, but the transition between print and online is not complete.
In print, journalism trumps blogs. Only because in print is the very same source your deeply knowledgeable bloggers tend to get their information and views from in the first place. Even AYB's baseball bloggers are getting their numbers from some where. Where is that source?
All the up to date information has to come from some journalistic source before it's 'reported' on by the bloggers regardless if its sports, science, tech, etc.
- The Anti Blog
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality)
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 9449
Location: Somewhere that seems to be no where
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote: |
| Quote: |
| As for the sports blog: well, lets be realistic, sports isn't really 'news' in the sense that it isn't entirely significant to our society. |
Well, news isn't just limited to things of vast social importance. That one blog was just an example of how goods blogs can be.
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Well yeah, i'm not saying all blogs are bad. I think we're crossing paths here. I just don't think the current opinion that blogs trumps journalism is a healthy one. It's a disturbing trend I'm seeing amongst people:
'Yeah, I ONLY read blogs now. THEY ARE SO MUCH BETTER then news sources.'
Those words I have a problem with. Not with what you're talking about AYB.
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality)
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 9449
Location: Somewhere that seems to be no where
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: |
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By the way, the, '- The Anti Blog' is meant to be an ironic statement. Everything I have written so far in a sense could be in a blog, but I choose to use this message board to express my views. I think the difference is very minimal. You can comment in blogs just like you can reply to me here.
Hence the irony. I comment against blogs but yet am no different in the manner in which blogs exist and my opinions exist. Get it?
-The Anti Blog
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality) |
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 9449
Location: Somewhere that seems to be no where
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Truth be told, I've often thought about starting my own blog, but have not yet figured out what I want to call my blog space.
I do have one idea so far: 'The Last Chapter of Dorian Gray' where it's about finally seeing your true self and then you kill it (sorta like what happens in the book I'm referring too), and it's basically me saying, 'i'm showing the truth you want to kill'. I think it's poetic in a way, and it continues my - possibly unhealhty - obsession with Oscar Wilde.
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'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality) |
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lewis
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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It should be called The Anti Blog.
I mean, duh
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AllYorBaseRBelong2Us
Infernal Smam Lord
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Joined: 25 Feb 2001
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Often in the sports media, those that report it tend to be heavily involved in the field. Many times you'll get even ex-coaches, ex-players (some of them that have received many accolades). Don't know how you could be even more involved then that. |
Actually.......(big grin )
Some players as analysts are some of the most logic and fact challenged journalists you can bring up. Tim McCarver, Harold Reynolds, John Kruk, etc. They can be very, very stupid. Managers constantly put these guys in the #2 hole that can't hit well or get on base. Baseball, for one, is rife with ideals of non-thinking.
_________________
This and other statistics can be culled from Jeremy Reimer's Personal Computer Market Share: 1975-2002, a very impressive piece of information gathering. The numbers tell some very interesting stories.
- http://lowendmac.com/musings/03/0131.html
Man, I need to get out more. You know smam is getting to you when you go to a canadian restaurant and start wondering about moose cock. -OscarWilde
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OscarWilde
Unbearable Bliss of Ignorance
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Joined: 02 Mar 2001
Posts: 9449
Location: Somewhere that seems to be no where
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| AllYorBaseRBelong2Us wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Often in the sports media, those that report it tend to be heavily involved in the field. Many times you'll get even ex-coaches, ex-players (some of them that have received many accolades). Don't know how you could be even more involved then that. |
Actually.......(big grin )
Some players as analysts are some of the most logic and fact challenged journalists you can bring up. Tim McCarver, Harold Reynolds, John Kruk, etc. They can be very, very stupid. Managers constantly put these guys in the #2 hole that can't hit well or get on base. Baseball, for one, is rife with ideals of non-thinking.
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You're assuming again that sports is about numbers and stats, which I know for some fans, sports is. To others, sports is about the game and not the numbers, Then there are those where sports is both. Whatever floats your boat man.
And not all athletes are dumb either.
_________________
'An urban myth. Like the dyslexic devil worshipper who sold his soul to Santa.' - Robert Rankin (Raiders of the Lost Car Park)
'Hate traps us by binding us too tightly to our adversary.' - Milan Kundera (Immortality)
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